50 (unconvincing) Proofs for God
Via Pharyngula comes this gem of a letter claiming all kind of evidence for God. I'm going to go ahead and deconstruct this bit by bit. Should make for a good waste of time, because I'm bored right now.
It is easy to prove to yourself that God is real. .the evidence is all around you. Here are 50 simple proofs:
1. Whilst agreeing that random patterns occur naturally by chance, DNA however, consists of code, which requires a designer.
DNA is a natural evolution of RNA which is a natural evolution of simple, self-replicating proteins. It's very simple. The more resilient the replicator, the more likely it was to replicate, so the path of progression is therefore, very natural.
2. How do you explain the paranormal, such as people witnessing positive or negative sightings, like ghosts or angels? I saw a ghost with a friend of mine - I am not a liar, an attention seeker. Neither was I overtired when this happened.
Maybe you are mistaken? Do you have any evidence other than your word? Fantasy prone minds can easily fill in gaps with information that isn't there. I suspect this happened to you
3. Try praying. What good is it when a mind is set to coincidence & disbelief regarding the positive outcome?
Prayer has consistently failed to show any positive effect in properly designed and blinded studies. If talking to yourself makes you feel better, go for it, but I'd rather do something more productive with my time.
4. The law of cause & effect - in order to have an effect, there has to be a cause. Everything is caused by something.
And what evidence do you have for a supernatural being as a cause? Natural forces cause things to happen as well.
5. Mindless nothing cannot be responsible for complex something.
Chemical processes are mindless but they can result in very complex outcomes. If, as most biologists suspect, life began as a series of chemical processes, it doesn't take intervention to get amino acids, and from there, proteins are only a step away.
6. Science can only be the detector of certain things. You cannot scientifically detect emotion, memory, thoughts etc., though scientifically we must.. These things which do not consist of matter are beyond the detection of science.
Actually, we can. Emotions are well understood. They are electrochemical reactions in the brain. We can induce basic emotions chemically with ease. Thought patterns associated with memories can be detected on FMRI. We don't have the ability yet to deduce the content of these memories, but there is no reason to think that we won't have that ability in the future.
7. Evolution has never been proved, which is why we call it the 'theory of evolution'. It's a fairy tale for grown ups!
Two points here, one is a gross misunderstanding of the scientific meaning of the word theory. Second, if you want evidence, here you go. There's way too much there for me to cover, so have fun.
8. Atheism is a faith in that which has not been proved. The disbelievers have not witnessed anything to not believe in, whereas the believers believe because they have witnessed. There is no 'good news' to preach in atheism.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm not the one making a claim. I simply see no reason to invoke a god. You are making the extraordinary claim that there is a supernatural being that can't be detected that has some extreme level of power and made everything that there is. That's an extraordinary claim. There is nothing to preach at all in atheism. Each of us makes our own purpose.
9. How much of the atheist's faith relies on anger with God as opposed to genuine disbelief in God?
What faith? Faith is what you have...belief without evidence. I have no evidence that give me cause to believe, so therefore, I have no faith, and therefore, no belief that your god exists.
10. Why do many atheists shake their fists & spend so much time ranting & raving about something they don't believe in? If they are no more than a fizzled out battery at the end of the day, then why don't they spend their lives partying, or getting a hobby?! Why don't they leave this 'God nonsense' alone?
Keep your god out of my government and I'll be happy to let you believe whatever you want.
11. What created God? What came first, the chicken or the egg? I am not going to deny the existence of the chicken or the egg, merely because I don't understand or know what came first. I don't care - they both exist!
Well, you ask the right question; "what created god?" Then you start with the whole chicken/egg thing. I'm a little lost here. How does the existence of a chicken prove the existence of a god?
12. Improbability is not the same as impossibility. You only have to look at life itself for that backup of proof.
Yea...and? We have evidence for life. We have no evidence for the supernatural.
13. How could the complexity of human life possibly evolve on its own accord out of mindless cells?
Because evolution doesn't require knowledge to work. Mutations which improve the reproductive fitness of an organism makes is more likely to reproduce. Repeat this over millions of generations and you get the modern biosphere.
14. How could the complexity of the human mind possibly evolve on its own accord out of mindless cells? Where does our consciousness come from?
The mind evolved with the body. Consciousness comes from our minds not being completely busy with just keeping us alive. Intelligence bore consciousness.
15. What/who knew that our hunger & thirst had to be catered for by the food & drink which we're supplied with?
16. Most of us are born with the five senses to detect our surroundings, which we're provided with.
17. What/who knew that had Earth been set nearer to the sun, we would burn up?
18. What/who knew that had Earth been set any further from the sun, we would freeze up?
19. What/who knew that had Earth been built larger or smaller, its atmosphere would be one where it would not be possible for us to breathe?
20. What/who knew that we require the oxygen of plants, just as plants require the carbon dioxide of us?
Taking all of these together because they are all restatements of the anthropic principle, which itself is a version of the fine tuning argument. None of this requires a who or a what. We are so compatible with the environment we are in because we evolved to fit the environment. This is exactly what evolution predicts.
21. The concept that life came about through sheer chance is as absurd & improbable as a tornado blowing through a junk yard, consequently assembling a Boeing 747!
Incorrect analogy that belies a gross misunderstanding or misrepresentation of evolution. Junk doesn't reproduce and a single tornado through a junkyard wouldn't simulate it. It would be far more accurate to have an army of guys with welders and cutting torches going through the junkyard randomly welding some things together and cutting some things apart, but leaving most things alone. After they've done with one pass, they go through and see what changes have caused a improvement that gets makes something more likely to fly (with flight being analogous to fitness to reproduce). They keep those things and throw out the bad changes. Everything else is left alone. They do this over and over. Thousands upon thousands of times. Each time represents reproduction and a generation. Eventually, given a large enough junkyard and enough generations, something would emerge that could fly, but that wouldn't be the end of it. Once it could fly, successive generations could make it fly better. That is a proper junkyard analogy for evolution.
22. We are willing to believe in physically unseen waves that exist through the air, operating physical forces & appliances to work, yet not supernatural God forces being responsible for the same.
We can measure the effects of electromagnetic waves. We can't measure the effects of your god.
23. Matter cannot organise itself. An uneaten tomato will not progress on its own accord to form a perfect pineapple. It will transform into mould, into disorganisation. The laws of evolution fall flat.
Another gross misrepresentation of evolution. The tomato is not reproducing, and therefore no evolution can occur to it.
24. Our 'inventor' of evolution, Mr. Charles Darwin had this to say to Lady Hope when he was almost bedridden for 3 months before he died; "I was a young man with unfathomed ideas. I threw out queries, suggestions. wondering all the time over everything, and to my astonishment the ideas took like wildfire - people made a religion of them." Darwin then asked Lady Hope to speak to neighbours the next day. "What shall I speak about?" She asked. He replied; "Christ Jesus and his salvation. Is that not the best theme?"
This has been completely discredited. He never said anything of the sort. Do some research next time.
25. Where do our moral values held within our conscience come from? If the atheist is right, why then would we care about what we did?! If there is no God, then we've no-one to be accountable to.
We are accountable to each other. Part of what has made our species so successful is our ability to band together into a society. Without working together as a society we would not have any of the technological advances we enjoy today. Our lifespans would be shorter, we would have fewer kids, and pass on fewer genes. Having moral values and consciences allow societies to work and not fall apart. They are very much an evolutionary adaptation that increases our reproductive fitness.
26. If man has evolved from an animal, why doesn't he behave like an animal? Yet man is civilised.
We are animals. and for the civilized part, see my response to #25
27. 'Chance' isn't the cause of something. It just describes what we can't find a reason for.
Chance describes only the mutation. Many things can cause it and we can't predict where the mutation is going to happen, so therefore, what actually mutates is chance. The selection for or against that mutation is completely non-random. If it's beneficial, it's kept, if it's detrimental, it's thrown out, if it's neutral, either can happen.
28. Science & logic do not hold all the answers - many people are aware of forces at work which we have no understanding of & no control over.
How is this an argument for anything? That there are things we don't understand or have control over doesn't logically follow that there is a superbeing out that that currently does. It also doesn't follow that we will never understand this stuff.
29. Look at the date/year on our calender - 2000 years ago since what? Our historical records (other than the Bible) record evidence of Jesus' existence.
You're really stretching now. The Roman Empire was the dominate political force in the western world in the early 1st millennium CE, and after the emperor converted to Christianity, a new calendar was eventually devised based on that. Since they were the dominant political force, the whole western world was forced to adopt that calendar, and so that is what we still have today. The Chinese, for the most part, follow a different calendar. Did Jesus come earlier for them?
30. Many people have died for their faith. Would they be prepared to do this for a lie?!
Those Buddhist monks that light themselves on fire wouldn't immolate themselves for a lie. Buddhism must be the correct path! No! Wait! Those Islamic suicide terrorists wouldn't die for a lie! Islam must be correct!
31. Much of the Bible deals with eyewitness accounts, written only 40 years after Jesus died. When the books in the New Testament were first around, there would have been confusion & anger if the books were not true.
Nothing in the Bible is written firsthand by the people who were there. Paul never met Jesus, and the gospels were written starting in 70-80 CE by unknown ghostwriters who weren't actually linked the names on the books. There are no reliable contemporary accounts of Jesus's life, or even of his existence.
32. From as early as 2000 BC, there is archaological evidence to confirm many details we're provided with in the Bible.
There are some historical alignments, sure, but if you are using that as an argument, then the Olympian gods were real also, because there really was a Troy, Sparta and Athens, and there really is a Mount Olympus.
33. Not one single Biblical prediction can be shown as false, and the Bible contains hundreds.
Then why doesn't everyone agree on what they prophecies are and how they are fulfilled? Why don't the Jews, who wrote the prophecies in the first place, agree that Jesus fulfilled the Messiah prophecies? If they were actual prophecies that have been fulfilled, there should be general agreement, which you will not find.
34. The evidence from liturature & historical studies claim that Biblical statements are reliable details of genuine events.
Isn't this a restatement of #32 and #33?
35. From the birth of science through to today, there is no evidence to claim that Christianity & science are in opposition. Many first scientists were Christians; Francis Bacon, Issaac Newton, Robert Boyle, to name a few, along with the many who stand by their work & faith today.
Then why has Christianity consistently evolved to match the modern scientific consensus?
36. Science can explain 'how' something works, but not 'why' something works.
I'm not exactly sure I understand this one. Sounds like playing with words.
37. Science is constantly recorrecting its findings. Past theories contradict certain beliefs which are held today. Our present 'discoveries' may change again in the future to rediscover how we originally came into existence.
You just described science well. Science adjusts to new evidence and is not afraid to review contradictory evidence. This is what makes it such a powerful tool in discovering how the universe works.
38. Evolution describes the way life possibly started, yet doesn't explain what made life start & why. Scientific questions fail to do that. Even if evolution were proved, it would still not disprove God.
Wrong. Evolution does not describe how life started. Evolution only describes what happened once it did. Biogenesis is the field that covers the origin of life. Science cannot disprove the existence of a god, but they can make that existence unnecessary, and when you have something so complex with no evidence beside an elegant solution with mounds of evidence, you have to make the obvious choice.
39. The two people who discovered Jesus' empty tomb were women. Women were so low on the social scale in first century Palestine, so in order to make the story fit, it would have made far more sense to claim that it were male disciples who had entered the tomb. But it wasn't - we're left with the historical & Biblical truth.
What? You'd first have to prove to me the story happened and then you'd have to show me how this has anything to do with anything.
40. Think about Near Death Experiences. It's naive to believe that they all are induced by chemicals or drugs. How do we account for a blind person having this experience, coming back to describe what they had never before seen, a person telling the Doctor that there is a blue paperclip on top of the high cabinet, which they couldn't have otherwise known, an african man being dead in his coffin for 3 days, coming back to life to tell of much the same events which took place as those of many others? We never hear of the witnesses describing "a dream". We're not silly - we know the difference between even the most vivid of dreams to that of reality.
There have never been any documented cases where anyone has been able to give any information that they could not have known. You may hear stories, but they are all hearsay. In controlled experiments, the results are always negative. People also tend to see imagery of the religion to which they prescribe. You never hear of a Buddhist seeing angels or a Catholic seeing Ganesh. Also, you are quite wrong on the last sentence. I've had dreams before that I was quite sure were real memories later, and it took some deduction for me to realize that they were only dreams.
41. There are many skeptics who didn't believe in Jesus before his crucifixion, and who were opposed to Christianity, yet turned to the Christian faith after the death of Jesus. Just as the many who continue to do so today.
Argument from personal revelation or argument from popularity. How is this supposed to convince anyone?
42. Albert Einstein said; "A legitimate conflict between science & religion cannot exist. Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind".
"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." - Albert Einstein
43. A speaker in Hyde Park who was attacking belief in God, claimed that the world just happened. As he spoke, a soft tomato was thrown at him. "Who threw that?" He said angrily. A cockney from the back of the crowd replied; "No-one threw it - it threw itself!"
Ok, a nice story of anti-atheist bigotry...what does it have to do with anything?
44. It is easier to believe that God created something out of nothing than it is to believe that nothing created something out of nothing.
Where did god come from? Saying he always existed means nothing. If your argument is that to have something complex, you need something more complex to make it, then there your god had to have a more complex creator, and so on ad infinitum. It's an infinite regression that gets you nowhere.
45. Stephen Hawkins has admitted; "Science may solve the problem of how the universe began, but it cannot answer the question: why does the universe bother to exist?"
Very nice quote taken very out of context. Anyone who knows anything about Hawking's theories knows exactly what is meant by this, and anyone who doesn't doesn't have the background to understand. I'm not saying anything bad about those who don't get it, but it would take too long to explain here.
46. We cannot confuse God with man. With God in the equation, all things, including miracles are possible. If God is God, he is Creator of all, inclusive of scientific law. He is Creator of matter & spirit.
Not a argument of anything...just a statement of your beliefs.
47. If we are the product of evolution - by sheer accident, chance, then we are still evolving. Does it just so happen that we exist here today with everything so finely tuned for our living. as we now have it?
We are still evolving. We aren't the pinnacle of evolution and we are no more evolved than any other species on the planet. We are actually quite poorly adapted physically to many environments we live in, but our intelligence lets us overcome that. Your actual argument though is the fine-tuning argument again. Things look perfect for us because we evolved to live in them. If conditions were different, we wouldn't be here. Evolution would have taken a different path suited to those conditions. The better a creature is to its environment, the more likely it will survive, which is the key to evolution.
48. Could it possibly be that the missing link does not exist?!
Yes. The missing link is an invention of creationists. Every fossil we find is a previously "missing link" of some sort, because every offspring carries some amount of mutation from its parent
49. God has proved himself to us in numerous ways, all around us. The atheist needs to put his glasses on. What more can God possibly do if man has shut his eyes to him?
If these are the ways you think he has proven himself, you need to seriously reconsider your faith.
50. Jesus Christ is either who he says he is, or he is the biggest con man history has ever known.
Or he never said he was the messiah and people raised him to superhero status later. Or he was a composite of several traveling rabbis which was raise to superhero status. Or he didn't exist.
YOU DECIDE!!!
Yea...I've made my decision.
It took me less than an hour to write this post. It usually takes me more than that to write two paragraphs of my own material when I already know what I'm going to say. This was completely off the cuff and wasn't the least bit challenging. These were some seriously weak arguments, and, apparently, they were the best she could come up with. Sad. Seriously sad.
Labels: Atheism, Creationism, Evolution, Religion
posted by Godless Geek @ 3:14 PM
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